Curse

Kaida the Heartless · Nov 09, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I think the most current problem lies in the fact that people have been relying on uber-buffed monk skills and have dropped all of the mitigation that other players used to need to carry. Almost every Mesmer previously would carry Distortion. Eles almost always had wards /w blind. Monks had WASD until the assassin came out, which evolved into Returning and Dark Escaping (also Warrior stances). Rangers had godmode and still have godmode, which brings me to my next point.

Why do rangers have godmode? Selfheal, mitigation stance, rediculous armor, and interupts. Which of these can we mimick? How many bars contain damage mitigation of some sort? None. We've been relying on Aegis and Defensive Anthem as our legs, screw crutches. Granted, Aegis has been working it's magic for a long while now, it's just become much more of a "necessity" recently. How many bars contain selfheals? Healsig is trash thanks to the gain in player skill, but the point being that it worked when it was up with the meta. Our ele's used to carry Healing Breeze, etc. All of this is in addition to what I've already mentioned above. Interupts are a strong but less mimickable part of the equation, as is the ranger armor, but do you see where I am comming from?

When it comes down to it, Monks have become so heavily relied on to heal/mitigate all damage that players seem to forget the methods that worked previously.

Granted, there is the rediculous Assassin threat to deal with now, which explodes anything that doesn't have a monk standing behind it, but that's not reason enough to be raging so much over LoD. Newsflash: Guildwars existed before LoD. Life will go on!

If anything, Anet should focus on bringing back healing and mitigation throughout the party, and not just on monks.

Hott Bill · Nov 09, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

People remember, this is a test week, sometimes they roll-back the nerfs. GIVE IT TIME!

Feathermoore Rep · Nov 09, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Why am back in this thread I don't know because my posts keep getting deleted...*glares at mods*

However, Splinter Barrage nerf is a big deal and it isn't. It really only affects heaving farming/vanquishing in pve. The nerf to 3 adjacent foes still works for average pve use as the times more than 3 enemies are adjacent to each other is minimal. However, the fact being that it was required to be adjacent for it to work said something. The way splinter weapon actually works with barrage is effective. Before, i noticed and just didn't care now it makes splinter weapon almost not worth the energy. The way splinter weapon works is each attack does aoe dmg to adjacent foes, and barrage is one attack. So theoretically you might think you shoud get 4 barrages from one splinter weapon. However guildwars treats each arrow as an attack. So when if you barrage on 4 enemies, each enemy gets hit by dmg from barrage plus dmg from splinter weapon 3 times (the enemy hit with the arrow doesnt take dmg from splinter). Upon doing so splinter weapon will end having used 4 attacks.

Instead of changing the number of foes, why not a change in dmg reduction or a change in the way it functions with barrage. If barrage were to really work as a single attack, each foe in the adjacent area would only be struck for dmg from barrage and dmg from splinter weapon once, and only using one attack from splinter weapon. This would serve just as well, seeing as it would effective lengthen the dmg ouptut from splinter barrage by over 3 times.

But splinter weapon still works, definately not as effective any more but still works.

And i dont want to even talk about rangers not being a dps class. No other class is solely just support character or dmg dealer. They all have builds that allow for a range of roles. Rangers deserve a dps build, and for me at least this was the one i had found and most enjoyed.

And Mhenlo uses LOD in Eotn, doh! Not using him anymore. Since thats now thats an automatic shutdown on him in pve.

LOD at 2s is definately major interupt fodder. However for the vast majority of pve you can easily not use it. The only times i even bring lod is the bosses battles with constant degen/dmg. The rest of pve can be covered by prot/heal.

As for pvp...i havent pvp'd, other than RA or AB, in months so i can't really comment on what it does for the game.

Chthon · Nov 09, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

In general, I'm happy with this update. I'm particularly happy with the shift in monks to more healing, less prot, and no hybrid. However, I have two major complaints:

1. Nerf to Splinter WTF?!?!? It was a total non-factor in PvP -- when did you EVER get 4+ targets in the same spot? And it was powerful in PvE, but not nearly as powerful as, say, Ursan. Why take away one of the few ways for a ranger to pack offensive power in PvE for ZERO gain in PvP balance while leaving PvE unbalanced in many other respects? It just makes no sense at all.

2. Mhenlo. Overall, I like the LoD nerf. Getting us out of the state where a prot bar with 2 or 3 heal skills was good enough to cover two roles is a very good thing. I'm going to miss LoD for a couple of end-game bosses, but otherwise I can live without it. But Mhenlo is stuck with this newly-crap skill for life. Keep the nerf, but please, please, please change Mhenlo to WoH.

BLOODGOAT · Nov 09, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

I kind of like this new buff to Word of Healing. Really allowed me to sit down and think about how I could change one of my farm builds for better/worse.

I really have to beg the question though... with the buff to Healer's Boon, why is Aura of Faith still elite? It looks like rubbish in comparison, now at least.

[skill]Aura of Faith[/skill]
1 second cast... 10 energy... and depending on your investment into DF (although for my build it's always max) you may only be hitting 50% max.

[skill]Healer's Boon[/skill]
1/4 second cast... 5 energy... and it's pretty much like Aura of Faith and Holy Haste forced into one with the exception that it lasts ~10 seconds less than either of the aforementioned skills.

I also find it a bit interesting that LoD == Heal Party now with the exception that LoD costs only 5 energy, not 15. I hardly find this meriting of the brand, Elite. Either buff LoD back to 1 second or make it another common, non-elite skill. GoLE + Heal Party > LoD.

Nyree · Nov 09, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hott Bill

People remember, this is a test week, sometimes they roll-back the nerfs. GIVE IT TIME!

That's why we're discussing what could be done to improve the balance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Nerf to Splinter WTF?!?!? It was a total non-factor in PvP -- when did you EVER get 4+ targets in the same spot? And it was powerful in PvE, but not nearly as powerful as, say, Ursan. Why take away one of the few ways for a ranger to pack offensive power in PvE for ZERO gain in PvP balance while leaving PvE unbalanced in many other respects? It just makes no sense at all.

People are arguing that splinter is too overpowerfull in Victory or Death in GvG because of the crap AI of the NPCs. Well, i don't play GvG very often, but wouldn't any AoE skill be overpowerfull against the NCPs? If the reason for the nerf is because of the crap AI i'll have to say that this is a pretty silly nerf...

BlackSephir · Nov 09, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathermoore Rep

However, Splinter Barrage nerf is a big deal and it isn't. It really only affects heaving farming/vanquishing in pve.

As for pvp...i havent pvp'd, other than RA or AB, in months so i can't really comment on what it does for the game.

NPCs at VOD see wut u did thar

Turtle222 · Nov 09, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Glimmer of light spam anyone?

wow ...i can see the wammo's already.

Conjure nightmare - about time - this is THE mesmer skill to kill.

Nyree · Nov 09, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

NPCs at VOD see wut u did thar

That means that the problem is the NPC AI not the skill.

lennymon · Nov 09, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Rangers had godmode and still have godmode, which brings me to my next point.

Why do rangers have godmode? Selfheal, mitigation stance, rediculous armor, and interupts. Which of these can we mimick?

Aww, that's nice...

*ranger flex*. This update may even begin to see some rangers branching out and trying something besides splinter barrage. I'm willing to throw down cash that not even close to half of the monk changes will last the week. As usual. But you are 200% right on Kaida, people should consider a self reliance skill or even two. I think the reason folks don't run them as much anymore though is due to the sheer power that more DPS gives in PVE (that and the overpowered monk bars already). There's no need for anything else usually. DPS which by the way isn't what a ranger is doing in godmode.

BlackSephir · Nov 09, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyree

That means that the problem is the NPC AI not the skill.

Maybe, but it's easier to get your nerf-stick than fix broken AI. Am I rite?

Nyree · Nov 09, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Maybe, but it's easier to get your nerf-stick than fix broken AI. Am I rite?

Sadly, you are.

Red Sonya · Nov 09, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Sooooooooo happy to see rangers got nerfed an are finally in the whiners corner. It's been wayyyyyy too long since ranger really took a beating in the nerf department over necros. So I just wanna LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Gotta love the monk buffs though, they just made my farming life soooooo much easier now thanks Anet.

visitor · Nov 09, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Nice liking the change to conjure nightmare

HawkofStorms · Nov 09, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

QQing was because of guild battle NPCs, because of their horrendoulsy stupid positioning which made AOE nuke simple way to deal with them.

AI runs out of AOE, sure, but AI with 480 health will not run away until its too late /5s which takes ai to react is too late with 2-3 casters wanding them with splinter/ since they just lost 2/3 of their hitpoints and are cheap targets for various "finish him!" tactics.

So, anet fixed Splinter instead of teaching AI to "l2p" (good positioning guys, good positioning ...)

There is nothign wrong with QQing about something you cant influence regardless of your skill. Thou, there is a lot wrong with anets reaction.

So how does nerfing LoD (which only affects party members) have anything to do with how you heal the NPCs?

bobrath · Nov 09, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

I doubt this was a nerf to Barrage on the Splinter Weapon. Sounds more like it was being used on any weapon during VoD to quickly decimate the cluster. I'm willing to accept that the combination of of Barrage with Splinter was powerful.... so:

Change Splinter to an Elite?
Cause Splinter to do a percentage of damage of the attack (5-50%)?
Increase the recharge time?

EPO Bot · Nov 09, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT

I kind of like this new buff to Word of Healing. Really allowed me to sit down and think about how I could change one of my farm builds for better/worse.

I really have to beg the question though... with the buff to Healer's Boon, why is Aura of Faith still elite? It looks like rubbish in comparison, now at least.

[skill]Aura of Faith[/skill]
1 second cast... 10 energy... and depending on your investment into DF (although for my build it's always max) you may only be hitting 50% max.

[skill]Healer's Boon[/skill]
1/4 second cast... 5 energy... and it's pretty much like Aura of Faith and Holy Haste forced into one with the exception that it lasts ~10 seconds less than either of the aforementioned skills.

I also find it a bit interesting that LoD == Heal Party now with the exception that LoD costs only 5 energy, not 15. I hardly find this meriting of the brand, Elite. Either buff LoD back to 1 second or make it another common, non-elite skill. GoLE + Heal Party > LoD.

I always take AoF for 4 man HM missions. Also, it improves healing from protection spells and from self heals. For big parties, HB is king.

pkodyssey · Nov 09, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Blade

Was HP nerfed before? I remember the last time I played it it was something around 150HP per cast at Healing Prayer 16.

Under HB I was doing 120. I think I had 16 in Divine and 14 in Heal. Specialized build, 2 superiors.

lennymon · Nov 09, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Sooooooooo happy to see rangers got nerfed an are finally in the whiners corner. It's been wayyyyyy too long since ranger really took a beating in the nerf department over necros. So I just wanna LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Gotta love the monk buffs though, they just made my farming life soooooo much easier now thanks Anet.

Glad yer happy, but see, here's the thing... Rangers didn't get a nerf at all. Ranger's who think they are nukers got the nerf!

I'm actually quite happy with where ranger's are as a ranger primary. The actual ranger skill changes do what to ranger? possibly hurt solo trapping... that's about it. Luckily Gwen gave us dwarven stability and we don't even need the damned spirits anymore.
Trapping is better than it ever was, there're more options for every possible ranger build imaginable and yet.... splinter nerf makes 'rangers cry' no...
Imo, Monks got a little too buffed, look for almost every one to get reverted. GO PROT!

Spazzer · Nov 09, 2007, 06:58 PM // 18:58

People complaining about Weaken Armor's usefulness clearly never used it before this buff.